Saturday 2 September 2023

ProjectSeleukid - how do you solve a problem like Magnesia?

Illustration from Ancient Warfare Magazine

I have been mulling over the dispositions of the Seleukid army in the accounts of Livy (37.40) and Appian (Syrian Wars 32-3) to try to establish both the initial army list for Project Seleukid, and also the shopping lists for Andrew and I. 

The table below breaks down the deployments of each named unit according to Appian and Livy into left flank, centre and right flank commands.

Units

Left

Centre

Right

Unallocated

Companions

Appian

Livy 1,000

 

 

 

Agema

Appian

 

Appian

Livy 1,000

 

Argyraspid cavalry

 

 

 

Appian

 

Cataphracts

Appian

Livy 3,000

 

Livy 3,000

 

Galatian cavalry

Appian

Livy 2,500

 

Appian

 

Tarantines

Livy

 

 

 

 

Dahai and other mounted archers

 

 

Appian 200

Livy 1,200

Appian

Arab camelry

Livy

 

 

 

Appian

Elephants

Livy 16

Appian 22

Livy 22

Livy 16

 

Scythed chariots

Livy

 

 

 

Appian

Argyraspides

 

 

 

Livy 6,000

 

Macedonian phalanx

 

Appian 16,000

Livy 10,000

 

 

Galatian foot

Appian

Livy 1,500

 

Livy 1,500

 

Kappadokians

Appian

Livy, 2000

 

 

 

Cretans

 

 

 

Livy 1,500

Appian

Neocretans

Livy 1,000

 

 

 

 

Trallians

Livy 1500

 

 

Livy 1,500

 

Karians and Kilikians

Livy 1,500

 

 

 

Appian

Pisidians, Lykians and Pamphylians

Livy 4,000

 

 

Appian

Elymaian archers and Kyrtian slingers

Livy 4,000

 

Livy 4,000

 

Thysian archers

 

 

 

Livy 2,500

 

Unnamed tribes

Appian

Livy 2,700

 

 

 

Unnamed skirmishers

 

 

Appian

Appian

 


Of the two sources, Livy gives the much more precise breakdown, but neither author accounts for the total number of 70,000 given for the Seleukid army as a whole. 

A couple of issues remain:
1) Argyraspid cavalry are never mentioned in any Seleukid army except in this battle, where Appian places them on the right. The elite argyraspid infantry are located in the same place by Livy. Are they the same thing, and is it an error on Appian's part, or on the part of a copyist at some point in history.

If the unit in question is just the silver shield phalangites, their deployment on the right flank, away from the rest of the Macedonian-style phalanx, is unusual. However, Livy's numbers for the two classes of phalangites equals the total given by Appian. 

Moving forward we might follow Livy here, and dismiss the argyraspid cavalry as an error.

2) How were the Trallians armed? Whether assuming a Thraco-Illyrian origin, or seeing them as coming from the city of Tralles, I had presumed they would appear as thureophoroi. However, I am now leaning toward's the alternative theory put forward by Duncan Head that they may be slingers. Sources unclear, but they were brigaded alongside Cretan/necretan archers on both Seleukid flanks, and also with Cretan archers on the Roman side. There is a long tradition of slingers and archers operating together and they would seem to fit within this. 

3) Where are the Thysians from? They are archers, so perhaps they were Iranian, but I can find no other refernce to them.

If anyone can shed further light on these issues, I'd appreciate any suggestions!

Army lists
The current thinking produces the following Hail Caesar army list (coming in at 723 points):


The unit profiles for a Seleukid army using the Fantastic Battles rules might then look like this:








5 comments:

  1. http://lukeuedasarson.com/Magnesia.html
    Here is quite a definitive DBM scenario for Magnesia that should answer a lot of these questions. I've never heard of Argyraspid cavalry, but perhaps they were guard cavalry so perhaps these are another way or referring to the 1000 Agema that did fight on that wing? Sarson makes the Trallians ordinary Psiloi which probably makes them slingers or archers while the Kyrtians are superior Psiloi which makes them javelinmen. He also has a contingent of Mysian levy bowmen on the same flank as your Thysians? Mysia was an area in southern Anatolia if memory serves me right.

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    1. Thanks Mike. Interesting read. Unfortunately Sarson doesn't give any rationale for his interpretations - Kyrtians are certainly refered to as slingers in both sources. Mysians (NW Anatolia) are lumped with both Elymaians and Dahai in the sources, so I have not distinguished them here.

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  2. Late to this party (per usual) - very intriguing project and a bit inspiring. Have you given thought to table size for your replay of Magnesia?

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    Replies
    1. A big one!

      Joking aside though, no, I haven't even tried to work out ground scale... :/

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